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Responses || Discussion || Debates || Commentaries

1. I was against the protest since I heard about it, especially when I heard about it from a member of PAS who hanged the banner at his house.

   And here I was thinking that it was under an NGO, therefore the NGO should be doing the advertising. Then I hear that this NGO is itself illegal. Is it illegal?

   You hold a supposedly peaceful gathering in the capitol of the city to demand fair elections but you don’t invite members of the government in power. What exactly is the message you are sending?

   And another thing. Why hold a protest in KL and send a memorandum to just the King. Why not hold a nationwide protest in every state and present the same memorandum to all the rulers of the state as well as the King. Are we forgetting the rotation system?

   I am of the opinion that the police something legally did right in this case, since the gathering was not issued a permit. However, the police have some explaining to do since the reasoning for not issuing the permit is very vague.

   As for Anwar Ibrahim and his ilk, my guess is they’re trying to grasp whatever credibility, publicity and support that they can scrounge in the face of the government’s massive economic reform plans surrounding the Peninsula.

   All they can do now is pray that the Corridors (North and East) projects and the Iskandar project down south fail. Because if it’s a success, we might be seeing another 15 years of Alliance rule and perhaps even the entire country having no Opposition in Parliament.

   Comment published by Aput on 10 November 2007.
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2. Aput, they did invite Puteri Umno but UMNO refused it.

   Comment published by Crawler on 10 November 2007.
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3. And aput, the memorandum is sent to the office of the King, not to the King. There is a difference between Office and the individual.

   Comment published by Crawler on 10 November 2007.
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4. Bersih as i understand it is a loose coalition of opposition. Whatever it may be really, the purpose of the rally was to push for free elections. Nobody’s calling for the government to be toppled or some kind of radical reform. All that was asked was free elections, so that during the next elections, if BN wins again, then at least it would have been clean (or cleaner).

   Why would the government participate in a rally that outlines its flaws?

   In a (supposed) democracy where the people vote to place those in power, how can the executive outlaw the voice of opinion of its people? Anyone with general knowledge of democracy and separation of powers would be able to understand that. But i guess we shouldn’t be too surprised, with regards to the ISA.

   I don’t want to impose myself here, but tear gas and contaminated water-cannon fire is the most inhumane way to disperse a peaceful gathering. Especially one in a public area where passer-bys get caught in the fray.

   With regards to Anwar Ibrahim, I am yet to discover his actual stand with regards to the whole issue. I know he was present, but I doubt an opposition leader would beseech the government to act fairly and stop at that.

   The protest itself has been a moderate success. The fact that the demonstration defied police and delivered the memo is a testament to their strength of character. I guess now its up to the king to make or break the whole situation.

   Comment published by Rashaad on 10 November 2007.
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5. illegal or not depends on the people attending the rally. khairy jamaluddin protested like an ape outside the kuala lumpur convention centre demanding to see condoleezza rice to hand over a memorandum. as you may guessed, he didnt have a permit either therefore making his protest illegal, just like bersih’s. yet, police didnt fire chemicals at his mob of 2000 people nor was he reprimanded by the gov. to refresh your memory, visit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QoOgTLatME

   in hindsight, the opposition parties had to resort to this. They needed publicity. they needed to circumvent the tightly controlled media to get their message across. anwar knows that the memorandum is of no use as it will eventually end up in the hands of the gov. The king has no power to interfere with the matters of the electoral system. However, the most important thing was to take advantage of the growing tension between the gov and the sleeping monarchs and to unite those opposing the gov.

   It was a morale victory for the opposition. It was also heartening to know that our information minister struggled to defend the gov’s position when interviewed by a visibly irritated al-jazeera correspondent.

   Comment published by democratic junkie on 10 November 2007.
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6. Although the government should have allowed the rally if they want to appear popular before the next election. Although police should have and assisted them to ensure safety and peace. Although Prime Minister Badawi should have shown his support if he really meant what he said. Although the rally is claimed to be free of politics. Although police should have not done the crazy things they did.

   The organiser, Bersih, should have known better. We won’t get clean and fair election this coming election. It can only make an impact if the magnitude of the protest is significant as in get the whole Kuala Lumpur to walk. There was not enough publicity and they should have planned it properly. Or do it some other way. Instead of rallying at Dataran Merdeka which you need to have a “permit” they can organize some sort collective individual protest.

   I am not sure what game they (government and Bersih) are playing. But it’s ironic that we are actually not that merdeka to rally at dataran merdeka.

   By the way I like the opening of the video, “democracy Malaysian style”.

   Comment published by khairil z on 11 November 2007.
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7. Aput:

   BN members were invited, and all of the component parties refused. From what I’ve heard (I personally know people involved in planning some of the projects associated with Pak Lah’s “reforms”), these plans don’t have much hope of succeeding.

   The rally was very obviously a political move, but the government’s reasoning for refusing to permit it, and then use force to disperse it smacks of complete arrogance, and insubordination to the Malaysian people it claims to represent:

   http://www.infernalramblings.com/articles/Malaysian_Politics/675/

   Comment published by johnleemk on 11 November 2007.
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8. johnleemk, can you forward me the article about the invite to all BN components.

   My source in Gerakan and MIC are saying they didn’t hear anything about that.

   Comment published by Aput on 11 November 2007.
   Was this a good comment?     --1

9. The King has shown some steel, isn’t it highly rumoured that he was responsible for the end Ahmad Fairuz’s tenure as Chief Justice? i mean, so my dad says, does anyone know anything about that?

   Comment published by Rashaad on 11 November 2007.
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10. I don’t know if any official communication was made, but all opposition members and leaders I’ve heard from insist they welcomed BN participation. This is the best public source I can find in 15 seconds:

    http://ronnieliutiankhiew.wordpress.com/2007/11/08/bersih-all-are-welcome/

    Comment published by johnleemk on 11 November 2007.
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11. I’ve been living overseas since 2000 (I was 12 years old) and hence left Malaysia with memories of BN being the good guys and Anwar being the bad guy (this is a sweeping statement, I know, so apologies in advance). I’ve been following what happened and asked friends back home who are more knowledgeable than I am in these matters. However, I must say that I am impressed with how the protest was organized. It was peaceful from the organizers’ side and it had a clear goal. Apparently, it’s well-known in Malaysia that ballots are ‘misplaced’ and/or changed during election, thus letting BN have power all these years. At the age of 12, I thought Malaysia was a democracy, where people were protected by the anonymity of their votes and could vote for whoever. I just thought BN was everyone’s favorite. Now, at the age of 19, I’m not so sure anymore.

    Comment published by dom on 11 November 2007.
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12. BTW, if anyone has any good sources of information that I can read to brush up on Malaysian politics, please let me know. I’d like to be able to make more informed judgments on matters like these in the future. Thank you.

    Comment published by dom on 11 November 2007.
    Was this a good comment?     +0

13. I do agree with you there, johnleemk, I can’t find any trace of any electronic official invite to any BN component parties other than UMNO.

    Several members of UMNO from the Youth, Puteri and Wanita have said they did receive orders NOT to join the gathering, but they were not told that they had an invitation from Bersih.

    Comment published by Aput on 11 November 2007.
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14. This rally is the biggest hypocritical farce of the year, and all 20,000 people there were nothing but pawns in this political charade.

    I am quite fed up talking about this topic, please read what I had to say about it here:
    http://vbglau.blogspot.com/2007/11/vote-ron.html

    In a nutshell, don’t you people think it is ironic that a rally for democracy never asked for public mandate? Who gave these idiots the right to disrupt public peace? Of the 4 million people in the Klang Valley, why is it that 20,000 people are allowed to speak for the rest of us? Quite simply, the disruptive pests deserved the water cannon in their face.

    Aput,
    I really must buy you a drink.

    Comment published by vincent on 12 November 2007.
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15. Aput, you can e-mail me for the invitation

    Comment published by habri on 12 November 2007.
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16. I’ll try and get it scanned, habri.

    Comment published by Aput on 12 November 2007.
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17. ok, actually i used to work with BERSIH on part time basis. I can assured you that we try very hard to be objective and not partisan.

    Comment published by habri on 12 November 2007.
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18. To Vincent,

    thank you for yet again proving that malaysian mainstream media does have its extent of power on the malaysian people.

    i had a gig to organize that day and had to go to KL in the afternoon.

    the only two instances that i felt that my peace was disrupted was

    1. when we were stuck in a jam for 2 hours thanks to police roadblocks

    2. when a police stopped and searched our vehicle at a roadblock and asked us questions in a very, very impolite and discriminating manner.

    at any rate, i shall risk sounding stupid and hypocritic and say that i would have been there at the rally if it’s not for the damn gig.

    why?

    because i have no faith in the electoral

    because i want to know that come next elections, my vote will actually mean something

    so what if it’s a opposition party stunt?

    that’s not why the people were there for.

    and they certainly weren’t there to “speak for you”, since you don’t agree with the reasons for the rally, they were there to speak for themselves and people like me who believe in the same problems they do and who has the same concerns and hopes and believes that they do.

    but hey, that’s what democracy is what about isn’t it?

    the freedom to speak out loud what you believe is right?

    the freedom to criticize when you see the system that you supposedly voted for is doing something you inherently KNOW is wrong?

    you’re free to think and say what you wish, but please do not demean those who were there on saturday not because they want to “support the opposition’s political popularity plan” but who truly believed they owe it to themselves as citizens to say and wish and hope and request out loud what they believe to be right.

    Comment published by phang on 13 November 2007.
    Was this a good comment?     +2

19. Nobody’s stopping anyone from commenting, just make it legal. And if it’s illegally done, then don’t bitch about it if the police do something about it.

    Comment published by Aput on 13 November 2007.
    Was this a good comment?     --3

20. i’m not saying he’s stopping me, i’m saying if you can’t see the point and are content with skimming along the surface of things harping on stuff that are not relevant or important, that’s your choice.

    just try not to call anyone who disagrees with you a dog-wagging moron when you haven’t even tried to see the whole picture.

    Comment published by phang on 18 November 2007.
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