Comprende, can or not?
By FLORENTYNA LEOW
Raise your hands if you:
a) are born-and-bred Malaysian, but
b) don’t speak like your average Malaysian (or for that matter, any character from Phua Chu Kang), even if you went to a local school
c) cringe and writhe in agony whenever you hear people pronounce things wrongly
I had my hands up all this time. Half my childhood and teen-hood was spent explaining why I spoke the way I spoke, and because you can’t articulate things very well when you’re young, I never really got many people to see things from my point of view. I wasn’t seriously ragged for having a foreign accent, but I’ve been labeled “ang moh” (white kid), “Christian” and “traitorous” for refusing to suffix all my sentences with lah and for actually pronouncing words correctly.
It’s not a big deal - it never was, but time to time people would still comment on it. On account of not being able to articulate a sound logical reason as to why I had a different accent, a couple of girls would always ask me if I was Christian. I’d ask why, and they’d say it was because I had such good English, so obviously I had to be a Christian. I also remember asking one of those girls, are you a Christian? And she said yes.
Of course, all this vague discrimination has changed for the better as we all have gradually picked up American twangs in our Malaysian accents thanks to the widespread exposure we have via the international media.
So why am I writing this again? Because the way people here pronounce things irk me. A lot.
For instance, when I was at the Youth Camp in Japan, 90 percent of the people in the room were Malaysians, and I swear I could feel myself, the Australians and the New Zealanders cringing when the Malaysian lot shouted their appreciation for some arbitrary performance by the Japanese youth.
Do you know what all of them were screaming? Encore.
Not just encore. Oh no, not “auhn-core” - tribute to the word steeped in elegant French origins, but the word exactly as it was spelt: “N-core! N-core!” I wanted to cry, right there and then. Oh, glorious word so horribly abused! So it got me thinking about all the words people mispronounce.
In general, it seems that Malaysians don’t “rawn-day-voo”, they “ren-dezz-voose.” We don’t drink lattés with a shot of espresso; we drink “lats” with “expresso.” Ladies don’t buy jewelry, they buy “joolleree.” We never slather mayonnaise on our bread, it’s “MAY-nays.” Sometimes we’re accused of “tinking” too much. And finally, you don’t go to the library, you “cabut” to the “lie-berry” when you want to “ponteng k’las.”
Get what I mean?
Now, most people will be reading this article with some fury, and admit it, some will be ashamed for not having said the words right. Some of you would lambaste (lam-BASTE) me for having no pride in Malaysian culture.
There is nothing wrong with accents - local or foreign. Even I, a staunch practitioner of proper usage of the English language, have to admit that our Manglish is amusing - for the first five minutes or so. As far as I can tell, it involves stressing all the wrong syllables, using wan and lah in the correct places, sprinkled with the occasional meh. Unique grammar - check. Dragging some words till the sun rises - check. Literal Chinese translations into English - check.
Indeed, I will even extend my generosity so far as to say that Malaysian accents are gorgeously colourful and vibrant, and sparkle with the bright tang of local flavour.
There is, however, a limit to most things. With any luck, just as we’re moving forward from being a country with a Third World mindset to a more open, educated attitude, we will also be cultivating better English. It’s entirely possible to maintain that lovely, piquant texture to our speech and still pronounce things properly.
Because we’re Malaysian. Because we’re a progressive country; and lastly because otherwise, everything will damn suck lah.
–
FLORENTYNA LEOW is a contributing writer for theCICAK.
Florentyna, or Flory, 15, jumped on the bandwagon last September and is now studying in Garden International School. She is contemplating a career in broadcasting, but will most likely end up as a starving writer, according to peers. She enjoys painting, reading, eclectic music and film. Visit her site.
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Comment of the week
I defend my right as a Malaysian to talk about anything that concerns Malaysia.
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I think context matters
Being able to switch between Manglish and proper English is useful in Malaysia.
But I really can’t stand mangled English in a corporate or academic setting.
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In primary school, a girl asked me whether I was Christian or Chinese, because I spoke English fluently. I think she meant Buddhist or Taoist, instead of Chinese.
Still, how does being Christian make someone a better English speaker. This never fails to crack me up.
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You may find the following write-up on Wikipedia amusing:
“Malaysians are easily identified due to the fact that they change their speaking styles in accordance with the person being spoken to. They may adopt a completely different slang and accent when speaking to someone of a different race, or of a similar race. This is not, however, a form of discrimination - it is considered casual and endearing.”
– http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_language#Extent_of_use
I totally cracked up reading that one day randomly. Partly why it’s so funny is because it’s true. I find myself speaking with a slight British accent when around my ‘mates’ here in London, yet when I meet up with Malaysian or Singaporean friends around, the lahs and mahs never fail to come out among us.
Resurrected got it right when he/she said context matters, as language is after all a tool of communication. No point going all Queen’s English when your kawan-kawan won’t understand you, that’s my own personal view.
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I have my hands up as well. Coming from an international background, I bear weight to an American accent (and mannerisms), and not some TV accent.
I myself am troubled when Malaysian’s speak Manglish, it does not carry the sort of professionalism that is required. Worse is when this Manglish gets carried into their writing. Completely atrocious.
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Hahahah the response of “are you Christian” is something I still fail to understand up till today! It is without a doubt one of the most common responses you’d get when you have a decent command of English.
like Resurrected said, I do think the context matters. For me it’s probably a matter of habit to speak Manglish in every day conversation, just as it is a habit to switch to what you would call proper English when it comes to a more academic setting, the pronunciation and whatnot.
In every day life, I have nothing against people who speak with natural foreign accents (such as yourself), but I have nothing against those who don’t either (namely those who speak Manglish). To me, it’s not so much of a cultural argument, I just think it’s convenient to speak in such a manner to the people around me. And like I said earlier, I’m pretty much used to it.
No doubt, being able to speak decent English is important (in the context of your example, the pronunciation) - but I think it’s more important that we give those who make mistakes while speaking it a second chance, and help them out with knowing how to speak it properly. Because sometimes we make mistakes not because we want to, simply because we didn’t know we were making them.
on another note, were you at the first WSDC auditions? Your name sounds very familiar!
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Code switching.
I personally find foreign accents among Malaysians annoying, especially those who’ve hardly lived abroad long enough to justify them, but that’s just me. Actually, pretentious wankery would fit the bill better, When in Rome… but that’s just me. It really is petty, but hey, you’re still young. And seeing how you’re in an international school I suppose you do have a genuine need for that accent.
In any case, what the guys above said. Among your more well-educated, equally pretentious English snobs, flaunt all you want. The more Cina ones would definitely appreciate your “dumbing down” — having a conversation interrupted while you explain the meaning of a word you just said really sucks.
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I speak American to Americans, Manglish to Malaysians, and Manglish whenever I don’t want Americans to really understand.
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accent switching is important to facilitate communication! i work closely in a small team with people from over 8 countries, including a “typical” malaysian, so I find myself speaking very naturally with whatever helps get the message across
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I always get this question whenever I speak English:
“Awak Melayu ke Cina?” Lol…
Although I’ve never stayed long enough in a foreign country to adopt their accent, I still speak with an accent, due to upbringing, methinks. Family’s a stickler for the Queen’s English.
Although, the “lah” really gets irritating after a few minutes, I would think my gratest peeve in people using English is the inability to say “That means” and keep on saying “That’s mean”. I hear this from lecturers and even my co-workers who are presenting business blueprints and I can’t help but cringe.
Hear it a couple more times and you feel like snapping a pencil.
Does this happen to anyone else?
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“manglish is amusing” huh? first off, i’d like to say that those phrases mentioned by the author seem to be extremely exaggerated cases. the average malaysian is able to pronounce ‘rendezvous’ (or they would be able too, if taught correctly). second off, the japanese switch their ‘r’s and ‘l’s. they get shit for it. but they’re doing fine (way better than us, in terms of being educated, developed etc., actually). this is because english is not their first language. the majority of manglish speakers, i would believe, do not speak english (or manglish) as their first language. so therefore, forgive them for not being able to conform to your high expectations of the (spoken) english language.
i get shit for speaking with an american accent when i’m at home. i have to forcibly change to manglish so that i can stop teh flow of ‘eh dun talk like that la wei, dam weird u know ..’ statements from my friends. thing is, said friends study overseas as well. they are capable of speaking your apparent proper english, but the general idea is that speaking proper english in malaysia is, well, odd. you’re in malaysia afterall.
spoken language is a natural phenomenon. it evolves and changes. writing and saying things like this is only futile. i feel as though many malaysians, as well as the author of this piece, believe that the key to the rakyat to having a more ‘educated attitude’ is to speak better english. why is this? with all due respect, tht is complete and utter bullshit.
i spoke manglish in gis. i couldn’t care less if you were malaysian and spoke with a ‘lah’ or didn’t speak with a ‘lah’. tolerance is the key. don’t be so high-handed in judging people just because they can’t pronounce a word properly - would you scorn a japanes person just because (s)he said “erection” instead of “election”?. neither, don’t attack a person in a fit of pseudo-nationalism just because said person believes that english should not be spoken with a ‘lah’.
of course i’m being idealistic here about the tolerance bit. but whatever. i’m beginning to see manglish as being a seperate entity. but that’s just me. manglish is spoken to whoever can understand it - which is why we change our accents whenever we speak to someone of a different race.
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i will direct your attentions to
http://mavrky.blogspot.com/2005/07/can-speak-england.html
which says everything i want to say and more.
i like the arguments that have been raised here and i’m -attemtping- to write a post for it in said blog.
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Yea its no big deal actually, however it is a matter of choice whether to switch or not to switch or be an outcast :p Just switch between manglish and the original whenever its needed works best ! Smart people will know how and when to change as change is constant ~ Take the american hiphop scene for example with allt he raps and slangs…. to me …thats innovation!
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the final say on all this:
http://www.xanga.com/misrule/579065604/item.html
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It’s really only in Malaysia that people use mastery of English as a social differentiator. Nowhere in the world do people speak more languages (except perhaps in Switzerland), yet no other people I know feel as insecure about their English as us. Mostly, people elsewhere (say continental Europe) see English as just another language, which if it isn’t your mother tongue you are expected to speak imperfectly.
I think it has to do with the British having colonialised us once.
And oh: The French would be highly amused to learn that somewhere in the tropics are a people (that they’ve not colonialised) who are fastidious about pronouncing encore and rendezvous correctly. They mostly don’t know where Malaysia is. And they couldn’t care less for us.
On the topic of caring for us: The mainland Chinese care more for us than many of us might have suspected. During the racial riots of `97 and ‘98 in Indonesia, students at Tongji University in Shanghai petitioned their government to interfere in Indonesia to stop the slaughters. None of the papers picked up on it, but I was informed of such by a student of that university.
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homagad… for the raise your hand part I had my hand raised throughout then I forgot to put it back down. that’s so true…
anyway, whats a specific religion anything to do with how you speak? Cos muslims dont speak fluent arabic… i would know cos I cant arabic jack sht.
Regards.
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Comment published by Poh Si on 23 March 2007:
Ethnicity is an artificial concept so says St John Chrysostom, patriarch of Constantinople. If a person has faith in God that all humans are created the same from Adam and Eve, then he can change ethnicity easily. I was ethnically Ceylonese but nowadays I tell my friends, I am ethnically English (bangsa Inggeris). I am considering to establish Parti Bangsa Inggeris, which will be open to all races and colours who speak English language as their primary language and self-identify themselves as ethnic English people. This new party, Parti Bangsa Inggeris will aim to capture at least 7 parliamentary seats before we join Barisan Nasional, which will then have 5 ethnic parties: UMNO-MCA-MIC-UPKO-PBI
English language is a Christian language, so is French language and Russian language. Out of the 5 Great Veto Powers, there are 4 Christian powers - Protestant U.S.A., Protestant U.K., Catholic France and Orthodox Russia. These 4 are the greatest Christian nations that defeated the Islamic Caliphate in World War 1. The 5th world power, the Chinese are not Christian but Communist.
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Entertaining little article, this. Just wanna put my 2 cents worth on it.
Firstly, this may probably be unintentional, but the young author here does seem to come across as sounding a tad bit pretentious
But I won’t hold it against her, seeing that she seemed to be from a somewhat more privilege background than most, and may be unaware of this.
Secondly, I agree with the comments by Anonymous and anon. I, too, find it extremely pretentious and embarrassing at how some Malaysians will suddenly start speaking English with an Aussie/British/American accent after they’ve returned home from their 2, 3 or 4 years abroad. That’s a pile of manure. I’ve been in Australia for close to 4 years now, and when I meet other Malaysians, I still speak with a 100% Malaysian accent. True, I can ‘moderate’ my bewildering Malaysian accent when dealing with Aussies, but that’s not my natural accent.
I feel that ‘Manglish’ is an amusing Malaysian quirk. I personally wish that it would be preserved, but not at the expense of people forgetting how to converse and write in correct English. Ideally, people should be able to switch between the two of them with ease, depending on the situation.
However, a Malaysian accent is a completely different thing from Manglish. I feel ashamed by the antics of some Malaysians who try so desperately to attain a foreign accent. I am actually proud of my Malaysian accent. It tells others where you’re from and what you are. Basically, it’s part of your identity. So why try to change it?
Secondly, Malaysia, even after winning Independence from our British overlords for 50 years now, many Malaysians are still hopelessly shackled by a, frankly, embarrassing neo-colonial mindset. ‘English’ has become a social differentiator. All our political elites are well-versed in English. We ‘look up’ to good English-speaking fellow Malaysians. Having a fairly good command of English, I personally experienced this slightly discomforting mindset as well during my school days. I love the English language, it being my first language, but I have never seen seen the need to play it up as much as some people do.
And yes, I’m NOT a Christian
I’m a contented Buddhist 
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I speak proper English as and when required. I speak Manglish when I hang out with my friends ‘coz they talk in Manglish, too. I speak Malay most of the time because I am Malay. Sometimes people will ask me “are you Malay or Chinese?” (thank you for the Chinese feature(s) in my face?) whenever I speak in either English or Malay… and sometimes, Mandarin.
**I don’t get it… whats with the question of being Christian related to good English command? Hmmm… sien….
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well, sod the people i would say. we should not being judgemental. speaking good english does not mean you’re trying to be an english. well, there are a lot to be learned, isn’t it?
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Just wanted to add something to my prior comment above. I am only irritated by those people who miraculously put on foreign accents after their relatively short stints overseas. However, I have nothing against those people like the author who had acquired her slightly-foreign accent naturally.
In my personal experience, one can only acquire a particular accent during one’s younger years, or when one has just started learning a particular language (eg: English). It is neigh impossible to change or get rid of one’s accent in a language by the time one has reached the later years of primary school, like for example Standards 4, 5 or 6. One can consciously modify one’s accent slightly during a prolongued stay in a foreign country in order to facilitate better communication with the locals there, but I feel that that’s about the limit that one can modify their natural accents.
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@ sigma: i didn’t know it was “neigh” impossible. certainly it’s “nigh” impossible, but since when did, uh, horses come into the picture?
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Colloquilisms (spelling??) are natural to any language, dialect and speaking form. The Irish dont sound like the Brits who dont sound like Americans (who sound different depending on which part of america you are in) who sound different from malaysians who actually if u listen properly sound different from singaporeans.
I think that the malaysianized version i speak when i am back home is a part of my identity i dont particularly want to part with, lahs, mahs and leddat ars all in. I also think u over exaggerate our incapacity to pronounce “rendezvous” and “Encore” and all that. At the same time, remember that they are French words and really, have u heard a French student speak English (so bad so bad, u dont wanna go there mate..) so the fact that your peers know HOW and whihc context to use these words is a good thing! Albeit slightly misprounounced.
Malaysian English is charming and i think the issue we should be worrying about in malaysia is not a matter of subtle mispronunciations but the capacity to speak English at all. English fluency at home is still far below par and THAT is what we should be discussing. Qu’est-ce que vous pensez? (yes i speak french and i do think u over glamourize the language a little, but hey just my two cents.)
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Only a Garden International School student can produce an essay such as this. One that is so insensitive to local inflection of the number of languages we all speak, while bemoaning why we cannot produce amorous sounding French word. Not that this writer has any particular interest in French intellectual culture or history. I suspect it’s more of a bourgeois romance stemming from this shallow encounter of culture via annual school/family trips abroad or the type of movie we call ‘art house’ these days. Not everyone in Malaysia is as privileged as you are, and your rant doesn’t reflect a level of maturity that is more advance than your average 15 year old with a Malaysian accent. You just articulate it in an International School Style that, unfortunately, is regarded highly by the upper echelons of Malaysian society (or most third world country for that matter) as a means of appearing sophisticated.
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Owh come on Simon, lay off the personal attack. Criticise the argument, not the individual. You do realise that you’re flaming a 15-year old who had both the initiative and guts to voice her view.
The way I see it, while she hasn’t exactly framed her argument well (but that I suppose will come with skill and experience), she makes a good point to note that while a substantive section of Malaysians may know how to use a certain word, their pronunciation often lets them down. The way many people pronounce ‘three’ as ‘tree’ is a good example. The only thing is that she mixes in the bit about accents which sidetracks people and clouds up her argument a little bit.
She’s advocating better English verbally in the form of better pronunciation, the same way one can also encourage a better pronunciation of Malay, Mandarin, French, German, etc., and I see nothing wrong with that.
Keep on writing Flory, but do pay attention to the cohesion and structure of your articles. Emphasise and elaborate on your points clearly instead of meandering through other different issues at the same time which may only serve to confuse your readers.
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The great thing about being Malaysian is, as many on this tab have already mentioned, is the ability to switch between accents I guess. In my opinion, yes, I agree that most Malaysians destroy English with the very obvious advent of Manglish, but its unfair to discriminate against them.
We have developed Manglish, which can be considered as our dialect to a certain extent, which is a mixture of all the languages we speak in this country. If you think about, just about every English speaking country has indirectly developed its own dialect over the years.
England itself is a classic example. The country that created English right? Take a trip round the country and tell me what you think. From Birmingham onward, you will begin to see that comprehension of the local banter, is sadly, beyond you. I used to live in Newcastle, and took me a good two months to understand what they were saying.
So what I’m trying to say is, it’s not just Malaysia, its the whole world. There will always be a group in soceity that emphasizes on speaking the Queen’s English, but hey, I think thats just beyond us. If communication is possible, it’s all good.
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Simon,
How rich of you to pass such a hasty judgment on a friend of mine that you’ve never met or talked to in person. Just to let you know, she wrote this article with the intention of provoking laughter, not some pathetic half-arsed whinge session about how big a snob she is. It’s all right if you dislike the article, but don’t simply throw hurtful assumptions at people just because you, in your own private, myopic world of self-righteousness, feel that she needs to be “brought down to earth” just because you feel she is “privileged” and “trying to show it off”. Just to let you know, Flory isn’t the type of person to make hasty assumptions about people based on the way they talk.( Which, looking at the context of this situation, is ironic, since that is what YOU are clearly doing.) And she is in NO WAY a shallow person who acts pretentious to remind people of her so-called higher social standing. (Strangely enough, she has never put herself on a pedestal. Again, something you are obviously guilty of yourself.) This article, I repeat, was meant as a JOKE. Don’t take it out on the poor girl just because God forgot to grant a palpitating lump of misery like you a sense of humour.
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candyfloss: Lol, you got me there
Rest assured, horses were not intentionally introduced in this discussion on my part. My bad, guys 
Ahh, the high one gets from spotting and correcting English mistakes!
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dear SimonSoon,
i appreciate your antagonistic takes on my article, and welcome any *constructive criticism*. however being in an international school doesn’t instantly transform one into a “pretentious”, “bourgeoisie” writer; i was in a local school before last september, and attitudes don’t change overnight. by all means, attack the article and even me if your irked soul should care to continue, but don’t attack the bulk of International School students who are harmless and anyway are generally too busy being ferried around in their cars to contemplate writing an article for this site.
cheers,
florentyna
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Jonathan, if she has the guts to put forward her view, then it is rightly open to any form of criticism. The problem with the idea of ‘better pronunciation’ is a very class-centred idea. One that reflects more often than not certain segments of society trying to police language in the believe that by mimicking ‘proper-ness’ or ‘accurate-ness’, one is free of the discrepancies of communication. This is absolute nonsense for anyone who studied linguistics. Of course, more often than not, the regulatory laws imposed upon a system of communication is more than not an effort to draw social boundaries, between us and them, those who mastered (and therefore remain at a closer approximation, in terms of accessibility to the ‘first world’) a colonial language compared to the inferior countrymen who speaks creole.
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i take it that you’re used to dishing out criticism without really thinking very deeply about what you’re saying. do unto other what you would have others do unto you - so i’m going to pick up on what you’ve implied in all your comments and fire them back at you.
first of all, you seem to have missed the point of the article. it made fun of mispronounciation and manglish. it suggested that we could make an effort to improve on things. so what? do we really need to be deeply offended by a couple of remarks that aren’t going to make a big blip in the big TV screen of the world, and start analysing every single word as to what it’s supposed to connotate? heck, are we even personally offended? this isn’t just a problem with articles like this, it’s a problem with most literature in general. some things are just meant to be taken at face value, chuckled at, grinned at, appreciated, disliked, full stop. is there really a need to take it so seriously like your life depends on it, subjecting it to microscopic scrutiny and pointing fingers at all kinds of things like “colonists” and “social differentiators”? all i can say is thank god she wasn’t attacking the singaporeans or we’d have an international conspiracy here.
also, the myopic view that being privileged means attending an international school as put forth by Simon Soon is, quite frankly, nonsense. is he implying that only privileged people attend international schools? is he implying that there are NO PRIVILEGED KIDS in local schools? what about kids whom their parents take on holidays? are they wrong because they’re privileged? and it’s not that we can’t even pronounce the word “encore” properly, it’s just that we haven’t been taught to. surely somebody could have picked up on this.
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Candyfloss, I take it you have simply no idea what I am talking about. Aphorisms such as ‘do unto others…’ really sound like you’re jumping on the moral high horse without contributing anything valuable to the argument.
Of course, not only international school students have such privileges. When did I ever comment upon otherwise? Please attend to my former posting with a closer reading.
Perhaps you realise that thecicak strives be a serious periodical. It’s scope must extend beyond being a platform for jesting and making fun of other people’s pronunciation.
Surely it’s no lark if you’re on the other end of this very demeaning snide. It is easy for those of us who are well versed with the language to become complacent of our place without attending to various social factors that has granted us access to assume an authority not only to speak, but to MAKE FUN. This is no joke for many of us who don’t share these aspirations that lack any form of criticality. I rest my case.
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I’m really sorry for Florentyna that the discussion went down the alley it did. (How old is she again? Did someone say 15?)
Poking fun at the overwhelming majority requires more art than even I have thought necessary. My regard for Charles Dickens grows.
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interesting post..
growing up elsewhere, i fully understand..
and i think it depends where u r at - on a corporate or academic setting, proper english is a MUST.. for a more casual setting, manglish seems to work as a soothing element for conversations..
some may find that this kind of “dual side” make for social segregation, eventually.. well, malaysia is truly asia
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i really appreciate the people who’ve gone easier on me simply because of my age , i honestly do. but how different would your opinions have been i hadn’t chosen to display my age? or the school i attend, for that matter? because these personal bits of information definitely provided fodder for some readers to lash out at.
i would like to know, however - would any of you have had different comments if i had been from a national school? or does the fact that i’m from an international school justify what i’m saying - or make it worse? for that matter, as you’ve proved, not -everyone- from an international school produces an article like this. some of you are coming -pretty- close in terms of the way you’re phrasing yourselves.
in any case, tempting as it may be to excuse me on account of my age, -don’t-.
cheers.
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Flory,
That’s why I never say who I am, how old I am etc. People jusdge you by these things, and then your message gets colored by all that.
I don’t speak Manglish because it would just sound artificial coming from me.
And I went to a public (er.. “government”) school
So, y’know, like, don’t like that lah, right ?
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‘would any of you have had different comments if i had been from a national school?’
Please read my comments to Jonathan and Candyfloss. That is my beef. Not so much whether you are from an exlusive background or not. It’s an attitude and mindset tha I am concern of, and it is certainly not limited to international school student just because I lambasted your background as representational of this mindset. I hope this is cleared up.
Language being so slippery needs a greater room for debate, reducing others who do not share the same platform as you are into mere caricatures is a position i do not share, or maybe once did but no longer. It reflects our anxiety, and maybe even shame, of the accent and slang (hence pronounciation) we were brought up with. I am positive that the ‘cultivation’ of better English has nothing to do with the country’s progress. First world or third world, this current obsession with mimicking evince a falling behind and catching up act than the maturity of a country’s intelligentsia.
In place of derision, I believe in extending sympathies by paying closer attention to the nuanced development of language and expression.
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simon soon,
you are right in saying that if the author “has the guts to put forward her view, then it is rightly open to any form of criticism.”. but of course you do realize that your very first comment prior to any of your other comments seemed to have been aimed at the author, rather than the author’s views no? Jonathan seems to be of the same opinion.
instead of criticizing her arguments, you criticized her character BASED on what her arguments were. furthermore, do not assume that only a “Garden International School student can produce an essay such as this”. it’s only fair if we don’t generalize gis kids no?
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Simon (just in case you missed my comment above),
I know the author of this article very well. She told me that it is meant to be something light-hearted. Something that you take at face value, laugh off or cuss at (each to his own after all). Not something to be taken apart piece by piece and over-analyzed. Do you think that Flory hasn’t thought or considered all the points you have brought up? She is fully aware of what you are saying. What she doesn’t get is why. You’re looking into it so deep that you’re taking something that is supposed to be a joke far too seriously.
That’s the funny thing about people like you. All a person has to do is publish something that you disagree with, and suddenly it doesn’t matter what the context of the article is. You grab any possible way to tell the writer that she is wrong, and you are right. Even if the writer is probably aware of all the issues you have brought up already. Talk about a complete waste of time.
Also, please do not pin the word ‘derision’ on Flory’s opinions. The fact that she has dared to poke fun at something a lot of us do does not mean she actually struts around while flicking her hands at locals going ” Pah, insufferable little philistines.”. Please try not to be so hypersensitive.
So, for the last time, IT WAS MEANT AS AN AMICABLE JOKE. Treat it as such and move on with your life.
PS. And please don’t say that this place is strictly meant for serious discussion. I find it strange that a person who feels that way failed to say the same to the guy who recently put up a picture of a sexual innuendo found on a bottle of cooking oil.
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wei. why everyone so ganas to my little sister one? play-play only what. relek sikit boleh? :~)
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I know exactly how you feel, my dear. But don’t bemoan it. Embrace it. It raises you, even if somewhat unfairly, above a large chunk of the population, and ensures you get paid heaps of money to do things like read a piece of paper with perfect inflection. Marvellous.
Malaysia may not, but I Can.
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As always, I’m not “Rajan”. I personally think French is too gay to be Christian, anyway.
Nice article, I sometimes think like that also… but I learn to blend it. You must trylah… My England have detoriated… aiyoh…
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well, my pet peeves is when people pronounce Australia as Ostrolia.. Sounds familliar?
I wonder how that started.. hurm..
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I’m raising my hands up very high now!!
I totally agree with you.. I also cringe when ppl mispronounce something as simple as library or anything with TH—…eg ‘this’ or ‘that’ usually is just dis n dat…
Isk…isk…sometimes I feel like becoming an English teacher or something. Haha just to ensure the future generation can have good English skills! I too have been asked about my accent…I speak with a slight American accent…and ppl have asked me, “Are you born in America?” “Have you been overseas for quite some time?” No of course not…I just speak proper English!
Sometimes it gets awkward to speak proper English when everyone around me are busy chatting with Manglish or broken English.
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GIS girl? No wonder … interesting how many of you guys all develop slightly non-Malaysian (non-anything, actually) accents.
I have to say though, being an overseas student for some years now, I’m still proud of our Manglish accent and proud to show it off to my foreign friends, be it Brits or Yanks. However, I completely understand the embarassment when some Cina just comes along and skewers the language in, for example, as someone mentioned, corporate or professional settings. (’That’s mean’ … that one always lingers in my mind.) Sometimes it’s resentment; other times it’s utter sympathy, coz it’s not like I blame them. Some of them really do try and were just never taught the ‘proper way to speak/write English’ like us lucky ones have been.
As for which accent to use and what impression it conveys while in Malaysia, I can understand how some will be riled up and think those who use proper English are snobs … or the tone of this article, very snobbish as well. But as most have noted here, we do associate level of ‘properness’ of spoken English (imagine a continuum with Manglish at one end and RP on the other, say) with a Malaysian’s status, or socio-economic level, something like that. Some people will, very naturally but in a rather p.c. and cliched manner bring in the whole ‘we have trounced Brit colonialism for 50 years how come we’re still so mired in thinking speaking English = very high class thinking’ attack … to that I will say, aiyah, who cares lah.
Basically, I find that I do use my non-Malaysian (non-anything, actually) accent with friends at home too, when I wanted to sound formal and matured and sophisticated. When telling jokes or having casual conversation though - let the lahs and mahs fly, man! Especially when I’m away at home, using Manglish generates a certain sense of familiarity that lessens the occasionally miserable feeling of being overseas.
PS - One other thing that is a very Malaysian thing to do, regardless of class or creed or accents. Arguments in the comment sections in blogs - happens everywhere, from the Cicak to Yasmin Ahmad’s blogs … anyone’s blog, really. Usually one will try to sound the moral high horse by pointing out some flaw in the post, then the next one will jump even higher by pulling out an argument from a slightly different direction, then another, then another, then the author steps in, then author’s friend steps in … and usually no one bothers to realise that they’re going around in a circle, with even diametrically opposing viewpoints making utter and complete sense simultaneously.
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it is not just english, i find out that my mandarin is a joke when i went to taiwan and i felt like an alien speaking mandarin in china .
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the whole blog commenting-and-leaping-to-the-defense thing happens on singaporean blogs too. just shows how similar we really are when it comes to things like that. including, uh, the way we speak.
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LOL! What does christianity have to do with a decent command of the english language ~_~?
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I too had some difficulty to talk in proper English when others around, tho well educated, tend to use Manglish or ‘rojak’. How I crave for a BBC accent.. heh.
However, I agree that people tend to be confused with the difference between Manglish and Malaysian English. IMO, Malaysian English is just like proper Standard British-American English (SABE) but just with Malaysian accent. While Maglish is a pidgin English.
The thing is, from what I’ve observed, the core problem comes from the school system itself. The teachers are to be responsibled, then it would be the mass media, then parents. Hey, I’m a TESL student as well at UiTM (thus answering my ethnicity if anyone is wondering), I can see that trainee teachers here have poor command of English as well. Imagine if this group of people are let out to teach the students out there, especially the urban ones who could only depend on them. How bad could some of them be? Well, just to state an example, during a presentation, without any guilt one of my colleagues said, “Today, I’m going to be covered Chapter “! A trainee teacher doing a public speaking once said, “My mother is a good cooker.” (Don’t you wish you want to ask what brand his mother is?)
Some lecturers (not all, but some), also have bad pronounciation, especially when it comes to stresses. It is stressful indeed when hearing your TESL lecturer keep on saying according as ‘ekor-ding’ again and again in the class. The worse thing is, these people just won’t allow themselves to be corrected. If so, they will label the appointer as showing off or rude.
However, in schools, the teachers can’t always correct the students’ grammar, pronunciation, vocab, etc. 24-7 for every word. If they are corrected every time they try to use English, then their motivation would wane. However, if not corrected sooner or later, we’ll get the same results as we see today.
One thing I see is that most educated Malaysians, oversea or local, are only book smart. Meaning wise, their written English is superb, but their spoken isn’t to be proud of. They pronounce what they read and spell, generalizing the system as they would treat a Bahasa Melayu word, thus ‘medicine’ would be ‘me-di-sen’ and ‘Wednesday’ would be ‘wed-nes-dei’. IMO, this is resulted to due to lack of practice in conversing in English with a proper English speakers, their attitude of being stubborn in polishing their proficiency and the trend of putting all words and spellings in the same bandwagon.
Solutions? Beats me. I am as clueless as you are.
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Hey girl what’s up? nothing much here so i see that’s how people misspronounce our language there, wow i dont how i would feel if someone came at me with an angry tone in their voice using that type of language…be mad as hell or laugh but neither one will result in anything i guess i would be called “white” for being an American even though i’m light skin. Funny how people think that there is a balance to everything. Why do you have to be Christian to speak good English? It has nothing to do with Religion but in the way you pronounce things or in other words how good your education really is. I guess you have a very bright future, knowing how to really use the dialect in our language you can go places, and be able to find a good job. While those others who choose to speak slang will forever be stuck in a place making low amounts of money. I wish you the best and i found your article very interesting. Thank you for pointing out how languages are used throughout the world. I hope you do very well in life. Take care. -Kuma-San
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i’ve been studying in sydney for the past 2 and almost-a-half years now and one question people here throw at me within the first 5 minutes of a conversation is this - are you american?
i’m not and i don’t think i speak like one either but the fact that my accent is neither aussie nor is it distinctly asian leads them to the (less than logical) conclusion that i’m probably american
and now for my dua sen worth: where exactly do you draw the line between the mangling of a language, in this case english, and the assimilation of a language into a culture. english is spoken differently, with diff. intonations and pronunciations in just about every country. want an example? aluminum/ aluminium, to-may-to/ to-mah-to.. i know a brit who scoffs at americans for their pronunciation of english. i remember overhearing (not eavesdropping, mind you) a conversation on a bus here in sydney between two caucasians of indistinct nationality. i spent 5 minutes trying to figure out what language they were speaking - it wasn’t spanish (yo hablo y entiendo un poco espanol.. apologies, i couldn’t resist showing off a bit) nor was it french.. eastern european maybe? closer listening revelaed that they were speaking english….shocker! their oz accents were so thick as to make it unrecognizable as english and australia is hardly a ‘third world country’.
so i guess what i’m trying to say here is that english is one hell of a language. it lends itself to so many countries, it takes on different quirks in each, why should we all speak the queen’s english or american english for that matter? I say, celebrate the diversity that the language allows. that’s the beauty of english, that it is so adaptable.
the issue i do take is not with malaysian pronunciation, but with grammatical errors and things like “my mother is a good cooker” - these drive me up the wall because it takes me ten seconds to fully register exactly what message the speaker is trying to convey and untangle the words. i would imagine that non-manglish speakers have the same problem and this is where it becomes a problem. this is of course by no means unique to malaysians.. people from mainland china have it much worse than we do, if you ask me
nevertheless, kudos to the writer. your article was a joy to read, even if i don’t share your views (i heart hearing people say cabut
). your writing style is far more succinct and structured than mine was at 15
cheers!
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Hey Flory, Ray’s a friend of mine and got me to come see. (just a wee intro there)
I can get your point on the whole manglish aspect, my dad is always trying to get me to stop using it. But I move around a lot. I’m currently in South Africa now. This is the 4th country I’ve moved to. I was in Indonesia first, and then I moved to the Philippines, and finally Malaysia before finally stopping off where I am now. I’ve developed accents that have been very much influenced by the accents and cultures in each place. I even managed to get a British accent from Garden when I was there a few years back by imitating all my mates. If there’s one thing I’ve learned after years of the misery of moving, it’s be proud of your accent, your culture, where history, your ancestors and fore fathers have brought you now in this time and place. Everywhere I go, I am forever having to change my accent to allow others to understand me better. Usually whenever I move, there aren’t very many Malaysians where I go. In my case, I am probably the only Malaysian teenager for miles around. So I can never really speak with someone my age in the accent, and even the mangled english that I have come to love so much. Because of all the moving, I currently have an American accent with the odd British slang here and there and I keep using Zulu and Afrikaans phrases in my sentences around my friends.
There was a particular comment that put it into perspective. That speaking manglish in foreign country just lessens the stress and lonliness of living in a different country. And speaking manglish does it for me. Because then it means that I’m not alone after all, and that I can always have someone to relate to.
Agreed, switching from Manglish to the Queen’s english is actually a very useful skill, I’ve come to learn it the hard way. That’s where the jobs, money and people skills come from. But definitely, for some people (mostly me) manglish can actually mean the world to them.
But thanks Flory, for calling to attention what so many people keep in denial.
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I don’t blame the nomads but come on, those who never even went as far as Singapore have no reason whatsoever to have a British/American accent, ok?. Speak normally. Those are the ones I “geleng kepala” to. And those who don’t know their mother tongue, it’s a shame :’(…
If you’re not happy with Manglish, too bad so sad-LORH…. And vice-versa to rojak speaking community. The thing to consider is, have you tried understanding the other side? With no articulate English education/influences such as yours? or a rojak one at that. Never judge a person without walking a mile in their shoes. Hell yeah, I do hope one day everyone could enunciate properly but where’s the fun in that?? Sigh. Decisions decisions decisions…
Peace.
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hm. I’m not sure whether or not to raise my hand.
and I agree with most of the previous comments, depending on the context, I change my lingo. I enjoy mixing Chinese with Malay with English in school, it’s quintessentially (I believe I spelt the word wrongly) Malaysian, in my opinion. But I only do that for the fun of it. Because honestly, speaking prim and proper English 24/7 can be rather painful at times, considering how often I would have to reprimand someone’s pronunciation and choice of words.
My control of English is pretty decent, and yes, perhaps one can term me “unmalaysian” since I often opt to speak in English over my mother tongue and Malay.
so what?
I enjoy the same good food, I celebrate the same holidays, I have a ethnically diverse group of friends whom I socialize with on a day to day basis.
there is nothing wrong with speaking good English. It doesn’t make you any less Malaysian.
anyhow, that was a well-written and enjoyable read. =)
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“How I crave for a BBC accent” - Haha! Rich, very rich.
Flory, I sympathize that a heated argument has been set off due to your age, and what school you attend. Call it discrimination if you must, but being judge on what/how you write depending on your age is just not right. I am too a 15 year old, a Malay, and attending a PUBLIC/NATIONAL school, but that dosent mean I cant write properly?
However, I am split 50/50 whether to agree or disagree with your own personal view on the language carried out by Malaysians. It is, somewhat embarassing that us Malaysians so proudly and boastly practice Manglish among foreigners.
But it comes down to one simple question : Who are we without Manglish?
What makes us Malaysian anymore, if we all spoke (in the words of Tsir Ah Xuan) in a BBC accent? I am not suggesting that we, as a community and a country, are built solely on the languange we speak, but that how and what we speak is one of the criterias that makes us somewhat unique, somewhat connected to each other, and somewhat special.
I would also like to add that I despise, yes I repeat, I DESPISE Malaysian kids nowadays who speaks like they just came out from the movie Legally Blonde.
Example : “I like so like need that skirt like ohmygod! It like would so totally go with the top I just like bought”.
Notice the ammount of the word “like” used.
I rephrase - I DESPISE Malaysian Kids who speaks like they just came out from the movie Legally Blonde. DESPISE
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but that dosent mean there’s anything wrong with speaking good English!
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i raise my hand at all three q’s… but how i speak english depends on who are my peers at the moment.
when i was in school, all my peers are malay and the only time we spoke english was during english lessons. so whenever i talk to my non-malay frens, they’ll be talking manglish, but i’d be talking proper english. though the ‘lah’ would come out once in a while, i find it difficult to speak manglish at that time.
now, i’m in college, and most of my peers are chinese. so they all speak manglish. and *poof* i suddenly excel in manglish.
but there are certain times when i switch to total proper english. like when i worked at a coffeehouse after spm. considering that the coffeehouse is in bangsar, and filled with mat salleh, i thought that i’d better off speaking proper english, even when i’m serving locals. and during presentations in college as well. somehow i’ve been planted with the idea of in order to get good marks, i must speak english eloquently.
what i’m trying to say is, yes, education do have an impact on how and when i speak english. yes, whomever i’m around with does affect whether i’ll be speaking english or manglish. yes, my upbringing of tv and british-educated mum and dad do contribute to my decent command of english. in my case i’m really just a bit here and there. i’m pretty sure that some of you are too.
inside my heart and mind, i do prefer queen’s english. but, being malaysian, i’m entitled to speak manglish as well. so, i do speak manglish when situation perceives it. just to an extend of being friendly and to keep the informality between us malaysians.
though manglish, i still try to pronounce the words correctly. yes, it drives me nuts when people can’t pronounce words right… no matter how informal the conversation may be…
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LOL.
Yes, I raise my hand too.
The ‘Christian’ thing. That happens a lot, doesn’t it?
Oh, and you think N-core is bad?
I once had a friend who asked me, ‘Elle. What is chow-tik?’
I mentally ran through my mental database for such a word. Double, triple checked it.
“No such word.”
‘Noononono. Got one la.’
“How do you spell it?”
‘C-H-A-O-T-I-C’
Yes, Chowtik indeed.
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I remembered accidentally said “So How?” or “Can Wert???” to a buddy and he responded ” What the hell is that? Do not use it again, you sound terrible”.
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Wow ROCK ON FLORY!
Its not wrong to want to speak good English - especially for professional reasons.
its not about the accent, its not about being snotty or pretentious.
and it is sooo not about being in an international school.
its about wanting to get things right.
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