Non-Bumi student, which category do you fit in?
By CHAN SHIJUN
It is extremely difficult for ethnic minorities in Malaysia to secure a place in local universities, due to unfair entrance exams favouring bumis. Non-bumis are forced to sit for STPM, a very difficult exam, while most bumis have the option of taking Matriculation, which is much easier. This is clearly a practice of double standards.
To differentiate the different types of degrees, I have grouped them based on popularity and desirability:
Group 1: Medicine, dentistry, law, pharmacy, etc.
Group 2: Engineering, architecture, accountancy, optometry, life sciences, technical degrees, etc.
Group 3: General degrees.
So anyway, in Malaysia’s education front, everything is peachy for non-bumi students until they reach Upper Sixth Form (or Matriculation, which I will ignore now and talk about it in another post). Once they are in Sixth Form and have taken their STPM, social injustice for non-bumis kick in with gusto.
There are four clear tiers for non-bumis in tertiary education. Each is based on a combination of his or her intelligence and financial resources.
From my personal observations, Tier 1 consists of non-bumi students who are simply brilliant. They are the people who score straight A’s in all of their exams. They don’t have much to worry when it comes to their tertiary education. As frontrunners, they have no problems securing Group 1 courses at local universities, or obtaining PSD scholarships to study overseas. They are the kind of students that every Malaysian STPM-taker wants to be, or wants to kill.
Tier 2 consists of students of mediocre intelligence - the ones with the occasional B or C in their results, but whose parents have deep pockets. To overcome the obstacle posed by the discriminatory entrance system, parents of these students will send them to universities in the United Kingdom, United States, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. Thus, their problem is solved.
Tier 3 consists of students with exactly the same aptitude as those in Tier 2, but with one very big difference - their parents can’t afford to send them overseas. Parents of these students are often government servants and the working-class. Since their fate has led them to not possess the brightest minds, or have millionaire parents, students in Tier 3 are destined to accept whatever local admission officers give them. By right, they are entitled to get Group 2 courses. However, this usually doesn’t happen because of discrimination within the Malaysian education system.
Because many Tier 1 students will also fail to be given Group 1 courses, they will usually accept those in Group 2. Therefore, Tier 3 students will be pushed down the hierarchy and receive Group 3 courses.
And finally, Tier 4 students, or those not as bright as Tier 2 and 3 students, might not be accepted in local universities.
Thus, all four categories of students with differing intelligence are being deprived of courses that they deserve. And this has made non-bumis very resentful toward the government’s education policies.
Non-bumi students have to depend on their own capabilities and financial resources in order to enroll in the courses that they want. Very unfair, don’t you think?
Who says money can’t solve everything?
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CHAN SHIJUN is a contributing writer for theCICAK.
He is an accounting student in Sydney, Australia. He loves discussing politics, sci-fi and fantasy novels, and ’90s pop music. Visit his site.
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Comment of the week
I defend my right as a Malaysian to talk about anything that concerns Malaysia.
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Hi…i posted my experience in “forum” under General Discussions….i would consider myself a second tier student in your view HOWEVER I didn’t manage to get into any local universities!!!! Even after I put I “setuju” (agree) to get whatever is destined to be given to me, not only once, BUT THRICE (twice in the appeal directly to the education department in Putrajaya and also through MCA’s panel for this).
However, my Bumi friend got a course that he doesn’t want even after he put “tidak setuju” (don’t agree). This is so typically MALAYsia!!!
Well, thankfully I got myself a place in a local university college. Thankfully my parents has enough money to let me study locally!
For more details into my full experience on this, which is very very relevant to this topic, please view it in forum under “mind sharing your experience?”. There is a reason for us to speak up and we must!!! (no matter it will change MALAYsia or not)
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oops…sorry…it’s under “mind sharing your personal experience?”…i would truly appreciate some replies of personal experience of discrimination faced by others either unto oneself or another!!!
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You said “Tier 2 consists of students of mediocre intelligence - the ones with the occasional B or C in their results, but whose parents have deep pockets. To overcome the obstacle posed by the discriminatory entrance system, parents of these students will send them to universities in the United Kingdom, United States, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. Thus, their problem is solved.”
Seriously, you expect me to believe you in that. I have friends who have all A’s in all of their courses and according to you would be considered as tier 2 students.So we ‘re of mediocre intelligence eh..I myself am an engineering student. I guess you’re not an engineering student…so you know what, why not I say all accounting students have intelligence that of a prawn…hurtful isn’t it. Mediocre intelligence…an arrogant and brash person aren’t you. Deep pockets think again. Some of us have parents that mortgage our house to study overseas. And in overseas we also work. So let me give you a hint you journalistic wannabe, if you want to right an article, do some research. I agree with some points in your article but there are lots of holes in it. So you think all those who go overseas are rich. Well you maybe one but not all people are like you.
And yes its so unfortunate that malaysians value the number of A’s in your SPM. Your results in SPM is not a true measure of your intelligence. People blossom at different times. Trust me, I’ve seen friends who have not done well in SPM but still managed to go to uni now eclipsing the so called ‘bright sparks’. Success and Intelligence very much depends on your hardwork, personality, attitude and a whole lot more factors.The number of A’s play a factor but it’s not the sole determinant.
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Shijun,
What about good students from less privileged families, who take on multiple jobs so that they can study overseas?
There’s gotta be a tier for them too, right?
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i suppose it is admirable you took the time to classify/group your personal observations. however, i do not totally agree with some things because there is more the story to which you may not have encountered..
anyways, happy new year
amanda
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Quoted from J.S.:
Dude, why so hostile?
Just because you resent the word ‘mediocre’? When writing articles such as this, one has no choice but to generalise a bit. I wanted to differentiate between those ‘cream de la cream’ students with the ones slightly below them. So okok, if ‘mediocre’ offends you, I apologise. An on the issue of your straight A friends who were placed into the Tier 2 category, I have already explained that, didn’t I? Here:
“Because many Tier 1 students will also fail to be given Group 1 courses, they will usually accept those in Group 2.”
Is this not the situation that your friends find themselves in in their local uni applications? But they are still luckier than most in that they still got a chance to be Tier 2 students and to study a course that they’re interested in. Many of those students in the same situation as your friends would instead find themselves in the Tier 3 category.
Quote:
*Sigh…* Dude, did you not see this phrase?
“
Please read carefully before accusing someone as ‘brash and arrogant’, thank you
Now, who’s viewing things just through their own experiences here? Have you not meet students who, unlike you, cannot at all afford to go overseas, mortgage or otherwise? Like students whose parents are merely humble teachers/policemen/soldiers/hawkers, etc? They only earn approx RM1500 or less a month, you know. Comparing yourself with them, do you not agree that they are worse off comparatively? They might have exactly the same aptitude as you, but unlike you, they can’t do engineering and have to settle for Group 3 degrees in the local unis. I have many friends who are experiencing this.
And come on here, whoever you are. Let’s try to be civil when debating on these things. Why the need to wontonly attack me for my own views? You can always agree to disagree peacefully, you know
Poh Si: Hmmnn… my initial rationale to that was like what I’ve explained to J.S. above. But yeah sure, we could further differentiate the overseas students into the really wealthy ones and the ones living on a shoestring. A good suggestion
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my first responce is i wonder which one are u
the first one or the second one
also hasnt this article been over done already, and everybody is well aware of this fact you could even go up to wikipedia and read up on it when you type in malaysia.
Deal with it, you’re little people
either do something about it or get out of this country, knowing you,you most likely try to get a job at Aus before they reject you either on ground of immigration quota or their distaste for your oriental invasion thereby leaving you to come back here and write more endless non-causing non effecto articles on malaysian being what it is.
these issues are complicated but at the same time could easily be nullified, but its crux rooted mostly in cultural/racial intergration and yes you all know this the politics.
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Hmm…I apologise first if the way I wrote turned hostile but yes the word ‘mediocre’ is indeed offensive well if used in another context I may agree but when talking about a person’s intelligence, I don’t think this is really suitable and should be refrained with the strongest will power. Your second explanation(i.e. letter) is indeed much better.
But would anything change in Malaysia, I do take this as my country, my ancestors just like yours migrated here and we call this place our home. So I guess the question that we should also start asking ourselves is what we can do to make Malaysia a better place. Discussion is good and a forum such as this is good…and yes civility in argument is needed and for that I applaud you for being calm in responding to my comment.
Regards,
J.S
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Now that you’ve pointed out this is your piece, I’ll put up my post here as well. For the other readers, this discussion carries over from the “Vote, Damn It� article.
I really don’t see how your article is constructive in any way. If I were to play along I’d say i fit in nicely in Tier 1, as my post will hopefully demonstrate.
The satisfaction I get from hitting the nail on the head pleases me to no end — you know it’s true when it cuts deep. As such, you will remember what I’ve said and hopefully reflect on my words before making further posts or (God forbid) articles.
It’s fair to make comments of the deficiencies of our, or any, system. Every nation has its own problems, and that’s what makes life interesting. It would not be a stretch to posit that there is a minimal set of qualities a voter would like to see in a political party before she feels it’s worthwhile her vote. It does not entail, in general, that a voter would only vote when there exists a political party that fully embodies her views.
Claiming that the majority of non-voters are waiting for their so-called messianic party is to implicitly create a stereotype of the inherent simplicity of these people. If you are indeed simple, you should not expect other people to be simple too. Infantile name-calling is what you engage in — I make my comments based on your statements. These are meant to be constructive, so that you don’t sound daft on paper in the future.
“One sometimes have to say that your views are wrong in order to say that mine’s right, no?�
Facts can be right or wrong, not opinions. There are more convincing views, more well-resourced, more empirically-based, more ideologically-driven, but strictly-speaking, no wrong ones. The rest of us have matured by the time we engage in tertiary education to realise the difference between positive and normative statements. It’s not unexpected to have some students still left behind in their juvenile mentality.
My views on voting are largely irrelevant to the discussion of your naivety on the subtlety of argument. I’ll just say as much in that they are more complicated than what I have space for here. To simplify things, the choice in the previous election in my constituent was between Barisan National and PAS. Should I have had a vote, I would be inclined to vote for the former.
“Ummnn… where have I stereotyped anyone here??? And ouch, ’simpleton’ hurts… So I see you condone our politician’s name-calling antics then?�
Expecting that the majority of us here are waiting for their messianic party is a good start to your stereotypical tendencies. Like I said, simpleton hurts because you know you are one yourself. Many politicians poke fun at other politicians, which ones are you referring to exactly? Perhaps that was a rhetorical question on your part :).
“Ouch… But I like my cool nickname! Did you know that sigma is between the alpha and the omega? Cool huh?�
That’s like saying S is cool because it’s between A and Z. On second thought, why do I even bother with this post? I’d like to think I’m doing a public service.
I think your English has a lot of room for improvement. It really doesn’t help your credibility when you make baseless claims. Reading around the facts would be a good start, and not just on Wikipedia. Not being born gifted is divine intervention, the fact you’re not well-read is not.
It’s very easy to point out the fallacies of a flawed argument. Statements that are well-resourced and well-thought of, the ones that leads to convincing arguments, are hard to attack. As such, the boundaries of my verbal assaults go only as far as the boundaries of your intellect, or lack of it.
I’m not sure how this is relevant, but if you really want to know I’m currently a senior at Vassar College. I went to Sevenoaks for my International Baccalaureate post-SPM on a scholarship. I look forward to fruitful years working in private equity post graduation. I’m always pleased to know I’ve done my part in making this world a better place.
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I’m a student who can get A’s but sometimes the occasional B’s and my parents do not have deep pockets. So which Tier I am? >_>.
I really sympathize the Tier 1 students who I saw didn’t get any placing in local U’s.
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In this piece, you seem to be making overly simplistic generalisations to turn a complex public policy issue into an issue of ‘fair and unfair’ based on your personal experiences.
Education is a right in most cases and a privilege in some cases. Until the tertiery level, I would say that it falls into the former category. At the tertiery level, it is a privilege that can be either :-
a) paid for by the elected government
b) paid for by the individual
c) earned in the form of a scholarship from an NGO
In the case of a), the elected government will award places in local universities based on the agenda du jour.
We know that there is discrimination in the system. But whether or not (or to what extent) the discrimination policy is flawed, is the real question.
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The essence of education is about learning how to learn, adapt and relearn. It’s good to know that you guys learn how to overcome your financial difficulties, discrimination against you and other obstacles. It helps you to go far in life.
As I look back on my past resentment towards the gov. for rejecting me, I realise that it’s a good thing after all.
—————————————
“Who says money can’t solve everything?”
For starters, money can’t cure cancer (most of the time anyway). But money is a good motivator for all fields of human endeavour.
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Jason, what do you mean by whether or not the discrimination policy is flawed? Discrimination exists, hence the system is flawed. The flaw persists due to political considerations. It’s like asking to what extent is slavery wrong.
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Valis:
Ahh, I know that, that’s why I specifially did not want to go into the passe ‘bumi vs non-bumi’ debate again. My article is on the unfairness experienced by non-bumis within a ‘non-bumi framework’ in regards to their tertiary experience. The dividing factor here being wealth.
Jason:
But in a non-bumi framework, most non-bumis are only presented with options B and C. Many countries run by right-wing governments like the US or Australia are employing Option B for their own local students in their tertiary systems.
However, M’sia’s non-bumi’s situation are very different from theirs. By taking up Option B and going overseas, they are subjected to artificially high fees, due to the disadvantageous currency exchange rates and high cost of living in a foreign country. Local students in US/Aus don’t have to deal with those two factors, thus still making Option B a palatable (if IMO, still not desirable) option to them.
This extremely high threshold placed among the non-bumis in the form of hefty costs distorts considerably the notion that entry into courses are based solely on a student’s ‘ability’. It’s not. The student’s parent’s wealth plays an immense part (sometimes even more so than his/her academic abilities) in determining which courses they would ultimately get to do. I myself have personally seen this happen to many of my own non-bumi friends. What ultimately discriminates between them at that point of their (or our) lives are their family’s wealth.
Option C is unrealiable, similar to trying to strike a lottery ticket.
And as I’ve said before, Option A is supposed to be the great leveller in a society (usually where the government are social democratic/left-wing parties such as the Labour Party/Lib-Dems/Greens), but for non-bumi’s in Malaysia’s case, it only applies to those non-bumi’s with exceptional academic aptitudes.
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Chan, I must applaud you for the effort you spent on the article. But let me share some of my thoughts.
Firstly, what is the purpose of the article? To highlight the discrimination against non-bumiputras? Or that money is the most important factor when it comes to tertiary education? Your rhetorical question at the end of the article doesn’t support your arguments at all.
And sorry to say, I find your article a tad too simplistic. What happened to straight As students who are genuinely interested in science and arts degrees? Degrees which you termed as ‘general degrees’? And not all who went overseas depend solely on their parents’ money or on scholarships.
I have no objections with you classifying the different courses based on popularity since it’s a known fact that courses such as medicine and law are more popular than others. But I have doubts over which degrees are more ‘desirable’. Are accountancy and engineering degrees less ‘worth having’ compared to medicine and dentistry?
All in all, I think it’s a good effort. You’ve probably reflected the sentiments of many non-bumiputras with regards to university entrance. But your article needs more evidence and support to be convincing. A few suggestions on how to improve the situation would have been great. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Sigma, I’m quite impressed you’re standing by your article that, on top of its lack of wit and novelty, does not tell us anything we don’t already know.
Are you not aware of the socio-economic composition of Ivy League schools or Oxbridge? I guess not, you were never there.
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Poh Si asked you to put this up? I had greater expectations of The Cicak, and was contemplating writing a piece myself. On second thought…
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Nic Lu, you are too good/ too smart/ too mature?
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[…] AK , curtesy of the editor’s request. It’s on The Non-Bumi’s 4-Tiered Tertiary Experience. Cheers then! Comments » […]
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I bet many would welcome ‘peer review’. I don’t think the Cicak was meant to be a place for yes men.
It’s good to have ideas put to test. Only the good ones survive.
Anyway, just to remind everyone, there are some house rules that have been laid out. Go to DISCLAIMER (top right hand corner), and go down to ABOUT YOUR POSTS.
Whatever ‘contributions’ means, I think there are some good reminders about how we should conduct our conversations.
N.B. I’m not calling for ANY form of censorship or censuring (I don’t believe in that).
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I bet many would welcome ‘peer review’, but I don’t think checking the writer’s English counts as that.
It’s good to have ideas put to the test, although one generally expects a lower bound on the quality of work being published.
N.B. I’m calling for censorship on mediocrity (I believe that’s where the editors come in).
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Nic Lu :
As I mentioned in my comment, I perceive tertiery education as a privilege and not a right.
I believe that discrimination in dealing with rights (ie: freedom for all human beings as opposed to allowing slavery) is wrong. Such rights must be accorded in equal measures to everyone.
Discrimination in dealing out privileges (ie: credit cards, lucrative government contracts etc.) is not wrong as long as there is a system which adheres to a policy supported by a majority of a nation’s voters.
Is it the policy that you have a problem with or its purpose?
Also,
In my capacity as an Editor of TheCICAK, I respect your opinion on the quality of this piece, but I resent your arrogance.
Pointing out to us that an article published here is not up to your ’standard’ is all well and good. But expecting us to feel a great loss that you have decided not to submit your work to TheCICAK is pure ego-posturing. Shame.
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Thesis 1: Tertiary education is no more noble than tuition classes. Both are taken on to do just one thing: Improve an individual’s future earning power. If universities do not do that, nobody except a few nuts will attend them. Some of you see the luxury of boosting your discounted present net worth by 5-100X through attending classes as some sort fekking birthright.
Thesis 2: Nobody deserves anything. Lots of people die, or have died of, hunger. Many people died in wars not of their making. Lots more die in natural catastrophes. We don’t even deserve life itself.
Thesis 3: There are hacks to everything. For myself, I’ve found a great hack for Tier 3. It always always always pays to spend all the time you have finding hacks to the few major agendas in life. The stupid will keep staring at the fences and moan while the resourceful are busy digging trenches to the other side.
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“Discrimination in dealing out privileges (ie: credit cards, lucrative government contracts etc.) is not wrong as long as there is a system which adheres to a policy supported by a majority of a nation’s voters.�
This is where we fundamentally disagree. An extended discussion on the matter would prove too painful online, as the arguments against tyranny of the majority are quite subtle. I’ll just point out that the black majority in Zimbabwe were probably in favour of Mugabe’s land reclamation policy, until it left them starving.
I did imply that Chan Shijun’s article was poorly-written, although my vote for the worst article probably goes to Anita Tahir’s Pembangunan. At any rate, what I really wanted to get at was how the editor herself sought the writer. With agency on the part of the editor, this reflects how this piece is what the editor feels this webzine should consist more of.
Allow me to quote an excerpt from the About section:
“What distinguishes this site from other blogs and forums, is its credibility. theCICAK editors will make sure that writers provide conclusive logical explanations and valid examples to support their arguments.�
Credible. Conclusive logical explanations. Indeed.
By the way, it’s TERTIARY. Some editor. What were you doing at the LSE, really? Cleaning blackboards?
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Nic Lu - your comments reveal your lack of maturity and substance. doesnt add value to the discussion, disturbs everyone but yourself.
Who votes SUPER FAT EGOS and NAME CALLERS like Nic Lu to go somewhere else to masturbate?
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Nic Lu does contribute to the discussion - he has his points - but clearly he is also here to blow his own horn and belittle others - which I don’t admire.
You have my vote.
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An excerpt from Chan Shijun’s website:
“In order to enslave mankind as is their rightful role in life, we have constructed a simulacrum called Simulacrum 7, in which mankind is lured into a stupor experiencing what they believe is their ‘Life’. I have inserted myself into that simulacrum, in the form of a 20 year old university accountancy student.”
The reflections of a mature mind. Of course. Exactly what the editor was after.
http://sigma.blogsome.com/2005/12/23/about-me/
My comments are direct and pointed. The recipient may choose to act on them constructively (distinguishing opinions from facts, making logical conclusions), or, if she was to follow what some are you are suggesting, bask in mediocrity. I mean, it’s not like i’m insulting your mom.
By the way Jason, I mean Jonas (snigger), “comments” is in plural form. It should read “Your comments REVEAL”.
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Scar: Hey, I’m glad you’ve raised those points. I’ll try to answer some of them:
I’ve actually answered this already in my previous comment. But to recap, it’s actually just to highlight the more subtle ‘discrimination’ that some non-bumi’s are facing within the non-bumi grouping itself, as oppose to the better known ‘non-bumis being discriminated by bumis’ lament.
So basically I just wanted to highlight that there is actually also ‘discrimination’ of sorts going on among the non-bumis themselves when it comes to tertiary education: wealth. More often than not, the wealthy gets what they want, while the not so wealthy are left wanting, even though both might have the same academic aptitudes.
I’m glad you’ve pointed that out. Due to word restrictions and such, it’s pretty hard to include all the exceptions that I had wanted to. However, I agree with you, there are many straight A’s students whose first choices may be arts or science degrees. I just grouped those courses like so because I needed to simplify matters in order to try and get my point across, that is, many M’sian students across all hierarchies of academic abilities, are being deprived of courses that, meritocratically speaking, they should or could get. You see, there is a difference between ‘being able to get a particular course but not being interested in it’, and ‘not being able to into that course but not being interested in it’. The former being a 5A’s STPM being able to get into medicine if he chooses to do so but decided on doing a B. Sc instead, while the latter being the same student who won’t be able to study medicine at all, even though he may not want to do so anyway. I was thus referring to this second situation, where the non-bumis are being discriminated according to their race locally, and according to their wealth overseas.
Oh, definately not
Like you’ve said, I just ranked them according to popularity as well as their cut-offs grades for admissions. I’m not sure what M’sia’s is (since transparency is practically non-existant there), but here in Aus, the pre-U exams marks that are needed in order to get into those courses are clearly stated for the student’s benefit. It’s called the UAI, which is basically a ranking system (not a mark) from 0 - 100. This is based on the demand for those courses. Here are a few examples:
Law/Medicine/Dent/Phar: 98 - 99.6
Architecture/Accountancy/Life Sciences/Applied Sc: 90 - 95
B. Sc/B.A.: 80 - 86
Engineering here is the odd one out. For such a rigorous and desirable degree in M’sia, its cut-offs here are relatively low (80), probably due to it not being a popular course among local Aussies here. It remains however, very popular among the international students here.
And as for the ‘desirability’ of those courses, I guess I was thinking of it in terms of their prestige/potential remuneration. I know, I know, an engineering or architecture degree is definately ‘worth having’, however, let’s not try to be too politically correct here
Degrees such a medicine/dentistry/law, in comparison, are definately held in higher regard by many due to the aforementioned factors.
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Just a short mention here that not only students who have been victims of this blatant form of discrimination ended up bitter and resentful agst govt, but also parents & siblings of these students. This has been happening for years, even those affected are now middle-aged and seeing history repeating itself with their own kids. So you see, the social injustice of it all affects more than one generation. Picture this scenario:- eldest child in family of 3 kids (or more) of middle-income parents failed to get a place in local Uni. Parents had to fork out savings to fund his education in local college, on top of paying their housing mortgage & car loans. By the time eldest child graduates, parents already ran out of money/savings. Younger siblings who also failed to get into desired courses in local Uni are left with no further options to continue their tertiary education. Resentment grows deep and the vicious cycle continues to undermine efforts to promote unity among our people of different races but with different preferential treatments by our govt.
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Nic Lu - i think jason would be smart enough to use a better pseudonym if he (or anyone but you) is actually capable of your childish feats.
seriously - some of these articles aren’t as solid as others, but does abusing it’s writers in public discussion forums make you a hero of some sort?
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Note from the Moderator :
Going by the trend of recent comments, we deem it necessary to step in at this point and warn commentors that any future comments attacking the personalities of contributors or fellow commentors (this includes attacks on Nic Lu’s character as well) will be blacklisted.
Culprits will be going against our policies (read here) and we will be forced to ban your IP address from posting further comments.
Stick to discussions on the topic.
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There will never be a fair system. It’s up to us to find our way around it. There is no one way to our academic goal, in fact there are many.
Well, STPM is a superb way to bring out the cream of young Malaysians. I bet, if the results are all in the right figures, somehow, in some way STPM holders have that value above many other university hopefuls.
In the long run, the difference could be seen. It’s the tough upbringing that moulds STPM holders. The easy way out would not be a conducive way to produce quality graduates. And when they all go to work next time, guess which group of Pre-U holders would snap up the top jobs first?
I believe, that if one is good, one would indeed be in a class of one’s own. We should not be measured by the ‘Bumi’ and ‘Non-Bumi’ distinction.
If only the bitter discrimination and the blindness of the ones that govern the destiny of local uni hopefuls would be changed for the better.
It seems really difficult because sadly, no one wants to change.
Sadly we stay as we are.
It has been this way for around 30 plus years now. When would we conform?
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To think that this article is about discrimination…. this article itself is discrimination. Just another example of stereotyping of courses. Sounds more like a 40-year-old-aunty concept of medicine is for brilliant students, accounts is for ‘mediocre’ students. Just how OLD is that?
P.S. I’m not attacking anyone’s personality.
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yes yes all this talk and talk
like the sounds of prententious ducks who debate on which direction the gun fires come from
the Q is What can U do about it ?
enought of this talk you’re not going to get anywhere debating on this important but trivial issue.
What can and will offer for sacrifice to do something about this ?
which why i cant be bothered to even read any of the comments as i slide down page since most of us malaysians know about this.
Valis/Wolf
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yes to note what i notice
there seems to be a lot of pretentious air going on here even thought i could assume that most of these people do art courses rather than sciences.
i could agree on this one particular individual.
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nic lu: I really like your posting, found it more entertaining than the original article posted here on cicak.
seems to me,(and this is my own PERSONAL opinion) that this website has started to lean a lot towards non-bumi’s who feel neglected by the ’system’… i don’t really understand how you guys feel because i’ve never tried or even bothered to apply to a local university. but i enjoy reading the heated arguements more than the articles themselves…
I assume that this websites purpose is for discussing current and politcal issues, but why don’t i ever read any less-cynical articles about our malaysian government? Why don’t i read any good stuff about my HOME country from the writers at CICAK? are you guys really that unhappy with your lives as malaysians? hahahaha… well i guess that’s why i love reading the responses more than the articles…. respondents seem a little more patriotic than the actual authors…
Thanks guys!
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Hi there. Sigma/Shijun here. Glad you enjoyed Nic Lu’s rants, as you must be his only fan there.
I wanted to reply to you here instead of The Cicak as I didn’t want to burden it with more comments that don’t relate to the articles. Hope you’ll bear with me on this.
I’m not sure which way exactly The Cicak is leaning towards these day, but if what you said was true, what of it? It’s no fiction that the ’system’ is really against the non-bumis, no? So what’s the use of pretending that it’s not happening?
You admitted that you don’t really understand many non-bumi’s sentiments on our local university admission system. Good for you for being honest, but if that is so, what credibility do you then have in saying that the contributers/commentors are wrong in complaining about the discriminatory system back in your HOME country? What are you gonna tell all those people who had wanted to study International Business and Finance as well, but couldn’t do so, due to discrimination locally and lack of financial means overseas? Tough luck?
You tend to read more critical pieces on your country because there really exist a spontaneous and genuine reaction against the ills of your country. People don’t just complain for the sake of it, we are much too busy for that
You’re asking the wrong question here, instead of criticising those critical contributers and commentors, shouldn’t you be criticising your country’s present government instead? After all, it is thanks to some of their flawed policies that are the cause of our dissatisfaction.
And don’t confuse patrioticism with being a ‘yes man’. That’s akin to saying the Opposition aren’t ‘patriotic’ because they don’t agree with all the govt’s policies, ala in M’sia. Doesn’t loving your country mean making sure that it’s not abused? Currently, M’sia is rife with corruption, racial discrimination and abuse of power. How does allowing these things to continue constitute ‘loving’ one’s country?
Thank you for taking the time to read this then
8:00 PM
Hey, thanks for taking the time out to come to my blog PERSONALLY and giving me such an intense and heart-warming reply. I APPRECIATE IT!!!
If you have something to say, why didn’t you just say it on the cicak? afraid people might find MORE holes in your arguement? i bet you hide behind your alias and do nothing but bitch and complain about what other people are saying, instead of going out there and doing something about it.
racial discrimination? you try having your face beaten in with a stick and your relatives hung from a tree after being lynched by a mob before you come tell me about it ok? what makes you an expert in discrimination? you complain and bitch, even though your country gives you the LUXURY of eating a plate of rice.
You complain about “corruption, racial discrimination and abuse of power”… How come i don’t see you running for office? How come i don’t see you walking about with a god damn sign saying your civil rights has been abused?
Oh, and just so you know, i don’t have to justify to ANYONE except myself, my mom and dad why I am studying what i’m studying. personally, you took what i said way too seriously. Take a breather and get a job or something. If you do run for office, let me know, YOU HAVE MY VOTE!!!! CHEERS!
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Lol, thanks very much for thorpedo-ing my intentions of not trying to further clutter The Cicak with comments not related to the articles they follow on from, hence my reasons for deciding to comment on your personal blog instead. Felt you have ‘exposed’ me in any way yet then? Pray tell me in what way am I ‘hiding’ from commenting on The Cicak since I’ve already done so numerous times, both in this article and many others before it.
Before going any further, stop evading those earlier questions that I had posed to you, namely:
Lol, how many more times are people gonna mention my alias, considering my name’s already beautifully printed above my article??? Jeez… Please refrain from being so repetitive with your demands of me please.
Please read “By ….” above the article and stop repeating something somebody has raised before you already.
Not everyone’s a student politician/activist, you know (oh wait, I forgot, thanks to BN’s introduction of the UUCA, we aren’t suppose to do that now). Go figure…
And that’s not the only way of ‘changing’ one’s country. A simple well-informed vote come elections can accomplish much more usually. Rational discussions on contentious issues can be another way of raising the awareness of others, or to air different views on things.
Classy English. I see that you’re essentially telling all Malaysians that this is as good as it’ll ever get, and that we shouldn’t hope or strive for anything more. Inspiring.
Ahh, but I have to justify why I wrote this ‘critical-of-the-govt’ piece to you? Your reply towards my question above is very unsatisfactory, to say the least.
You come in here and lambast the people who complain about how difficult it is to get into a govt-subsidised (and therefore affordable) place at a local uni, but you’re currently doing a course that you presumably wanted, studying at an American institution when the exchange rate is US$1 to about RM3.5, and you see nothing wrong with your argument? If that’s the case, I’m afraid I have nothing else to say.
Until you’re ready to answer my question above, there’s really no point in us arguing further.
Cheers!
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A few points:
It is particularly unsightly to classify someone’s class of intellect based on their area of interests. There’re mediocre students in Medicine, just as there are real intellects in English Lit for example. It’s unfair to state as authoritatively as you have that better students go for Tier 1 courses as their first choices, whereas less talented students flock to general degrees etc, generalization or not.
Also, straight A’s are by no means indications of intelligence so much as mugging.
As an aside, I think sometimes we have a habit of overlamenting Malaysia’s ‘discrimination’ policies. No ground is truly even, and grass is the same everywhere. We just have to make the best of it as we can, and to make do with what we have.
That being said, this conversation is getting way too heated for my liking.
Disclaimer: No animosity in this post, just pointing a few things out. (just in case)
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okay shijin…. you win okay? hahahaha.. cicak has ‘disciplined me for name calling’.. and i no longer wanna beef with you about malaysian politics… you seem to be the expert here… cheers mate…
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Shijun…think ur article has rubbed people a lot more the wrong way than the right..well…it is after all your opinion..might not be a very good one..but please do some/ if not any research into your piece before sending over to TheCicak..it is bad enough for us non bumis to put up with all the crap in this country..even more for people like me who were not fortunate enough to be sent overseas to further my education..when i browsed through your article..u reminded me fairly enough of a Malaysian politician…might want to switch professions..MCA? GERAKAN? ..haha..
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A badly backed article. Where’s the stats? The references?
” It is extremely difficult for ethnic minorities in Malaysia to secure a place in local universities, due to unfair entrance exams favouring bumis. Non-bumis are forced to sit for STPM, a very difficult exam, while most bumis have the option of taking Matriculation, which is much easier. This is clearly a practice of double standards.”
“It is extremely difficult for ethnic minorities in Malaysia to secure a place in local universities”
Need stats. Define ethnic minorities. Are Bumis even a majority now? Are non Bumis majority among the students? Stats please.
“unfair entrance exams favouring bumis”
How? Is there anything intelligible to the non-Bumis in the paper?
“Non-bumis are forced to sit for STPM, a very difficult exam”
The notion itself is very laughable. Of course there are Bumis taking STPMs. And forced?
“while most bumis have the option of taking Matriculation, which is much easier.”
Did you experience this for yourself to have a base of comparison? Anywhere I can see samples of matriculation vs STPM question?
Dear editor of the Cicak, is this a rant blog now? I can’t believe you’ll just allow everyone with an opinion to post in here without any evidence of research.
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There is no hard evidence to compliment your opinions in this article. You may even face defamatory charges if this opinion is brought up to the authorities.
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Hei.. u guys out. Cut it man. I dont c any point in ur agruments.. Engineering .. Accounting… waht the hell does it matters. Even if u people dont get AAAAAA.. and u have what MALAYsia.. wants.. either u know someone, u r someone r u have $$$$$ , then u r not deprived of any damn course u want.
All these happens to those folks who try go by the books to apply.. taking into consideration that MALAYsia is a demoratic country and will just take in my kids who has all AAAAA.. So why the hell u people waste ur idea and anger on these keyboards… get the hell out there and form a team to stand for ur rights… anyone dare to ?????
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Hi, I think you are totally right. Great! -
Susan.
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[…] we want to apply for tertiary education in a local university. To read more about it click here to find out! Happy reading! Permalink Leave a Comment […]
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well, i do partially agree with that post. it sucks to see other bumi students with fewer num of a’s than me get in matriculation or universities. i was a prefect in my school and i enrolled myself in many cocurucular activities but still it is not enough to qualify myself in any local universities. Then i found out that most of the science based courses are for bumi’s (spm qualification-diploma). it is really unfair. have we not contribute anything to the nation? why are they being so unfair in education sector. after all we are anak malaysia (aint we?).. what kind of youth are they trying to raise?? i hope that the gov will change this “sistem kuota” or whatever and treat everyone fairly.
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cant help but to say that like any other blog this is definitely a place for anti-bumi bitching. it takes only few minutes before anyone with multiculturalist ideals to quickly transform into a fascist. people bitch about racism and discrimination but whenever the BN government made a terrible mistake, everyone was quick to blame the whole malay population.
its understood that the govt is not doing enough to help non-bumis, but all this bitching about malays is simply insulting and bordering racism. ok fair enough you’re airing your dissatisfaction on current govt policies but please don’t make generalising statements on malay people. “malays dont get good results” or “MALAYsia” and all this immature stuff is exactly the same with calling “chinese are cheats” or something like that. you make people want to stop believing that we can actually live in harmony.
everyone hates to admit that there are existing divide. if you grew up in urban areas, you wouldn’t have experienced it. these low-achieving malays are mostly people of low-income or working-class background. who dont get out-of-school tuition or even have computers at home. go to any country and you’ll see that this particular group of society needs more help than others. we live in a capitalist world where society is stratified. there will be no such thing as “competition based on merit” because obviously people who were born in a more affluent group will have the advantage.
at the moment the rural people cannot compete (irregardless of race). but the race-based system seem to have benefited well-off malays as well, which is unfair. so opening access of the doubly disadvantaged ethnic minority is probably the solution to this. nobody seem to have mentioned this but even with a system based solely on economic backgrounds (and colour-blind), the majority of people that will benefit from this new affirmative action are still the malays and other bumis.
so dont blame it on race because if you do , you will further reinforce the existing racial politics and we will never succeed in our dream of implementing a fairer system in our country. the problem is deeper than just race. its not just the fault of UMNO delegates for flaunting keris or screaming ketuanan melayu but its partly the fault of those who themselves becoming the ultra anti-Malays.
i think what we need is not only a fairer system but also more universities. we need fight for this cause together. all of us.
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